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Making Demotion Reasons Public

LetsTimeOut

Co-Owner
Financial Adviser
Hi all,

Over the past few days Monis and I have been contemplating creating this thread to explain to our community and our players about what has been going on recently to our Staff Team. In this thread I will go over a couple of things which will include: Staff Demotions and the upcoming change of making demotion reasons public for you all to see. We initially had no desire to create this thread but due to a certain few past Staff Members have been abusing this privacy. They have started creating a mindset of hatred being directed towards the Staff Team and to Monis and myself. Since that has been happening, we now we feel that there is no other way for us to set things right then by making this thread. I hope this will clear up a few things and make it overall more transparent to each and everyone of you reading this.

Starting off with the topic of Staff Members getting demoted. I never thought this would be an issue and something I would have to openly discuss about since I thought it was straightforward process. However, I was wrong in believing that so I will openly discuss the process of how a Staff Member would be demoted. First off, I would like to explain that yes, our staff members, have rules that they must follow in order to keep their spot on our Staff Team. Most of these rules that they must follow are the same ones listed on our Rules page here on Forums, which are once again, the same rules that we hold every player who joins our server accountable to follow them. Second off, I would also like to explain that we do not demote our Staff members for no reason at all. Every Staff Member who has been demoted has been demoted due to them breaking our list of rules that we hold them accountable for. With that being said, there are still some players around our server who believe we demote Staff Members just because we want too. From a logical standpoint, we gain nothing from demoting a Staff Member who has not done any wrong doings. Which then leads us to believe that there are past Staff Members who have been lying to our players about their demotions and directing slander towards Monis and myself in return for our “power abuse”. This then leads us to my next topic of discussion.

I will be discussing why we have made our Staff Demotion reasons private and why we will be now releasing them for you all to see. Starting off with our server many years ago, we did in fact have our demotion reasonings available for every player on our server to view if they had access to view our Forums. We had this available for our players to see for many years until some of our demoted Staff had asked us to make them private, which we have done until now. When we made that decision to private our reasonings, we thought there was privacy for them to decide whether they would like to talk about their demotion on the server. Most of the Staff who have been demoted have expressed that they would rather not talk about their demotions, which was fine by us and we were happy to comply with their wants. However, there are some who have broken this trust and are starting to be dishonest with their demotions. Which they then proceed to have started misleading our players into giving Monis and I a false narrative that we are the bad guys. This leads us to our only solution by making all of the demotion reasonings readily available to anyone on our server.

After reading these few paragraphs, I hope that this has cleared up any confusion and/or helped any mislead players. We sincerely apologize if you have been affected by our previous Staff Members attempting to mislead or lie to you about us in any way. We will take this as a learning lesson to better ourselves and make Creative Fun a great environment for players of all ages, from all around the world.

We hope to see you all on the server!
 

ly4

Active Member
Well I am not surprised, I knew something was going on because of that sudden wave of demotions/resignations, this will probably prevent things like that from happening again, but like... exposing people for a mistake.. I could definitely see some kind of black list for demoted staff who really were "horrible", but exposing anyone for their mistakes is not super cool. (Don't get me wrong, I know that this list isn't to directly expose people, but that's a secondary effect)

anyways to me, that application system always felt out of place, and well, it doesn't surprise me that something like that happening because allowing people from seemingly all ages to become staff is just.. eh. I get why you're doing this instead of setting an age limit.. (and I am also pretty sure that the Chat Mod rank is also, in a way, a trial mod rank)

I mean it can sound a bit harsh, but why? Why aren't you putting an age limit as almost all servers do, even other child-friendly servers do it because there are multiple reasons as why it's just simply better - maturity, is the person really ready to sacrifice their player experience for a staff status? does the person really know what a moderator is, what their goal is?

When you are younger you hardly realize all of that because you're not mature enough, only a FEW people are. So yep, I think an age limit would really help solve some of those issues.

Good day!
 

LetsTimeOut

Co-Owner
Financial Adviser
When you are younger you hardly realize all of that because you're not mature enough, only a FEW people are. So yep, I think an age limit would really help solve some of those issues.
What would you suggest the age requirement to be?
 

ly4

Active Member
What would you suggest the age requirement to be?
I would personally set it to 16+, as at this age you become less and less dependent from your parents and you start entering the active life (or working life, I don't know if "active life" exists in english) which usually signs the end of the "childhood"/adolescence and at that time people start becoming more mature, so yeah, that is my reasoning for the age requirement, of course it's based on my own experiences with other people and myself.
 

Paethetic

Active Member
I still don't believe demotion reasons should be public. I've told a few people about my demotion from my side of the story and I see how some people can twist that into a bad guy situation but that isn't enough reason to expose things they don't want to be exposed. You guys have the console and the chat logs from most things. If it really became an issue shouldn't you be able to easily put yourself in the right if you had something that required answers going around?

Honestly, there is still going to be people who say things in global about ex-staff members because some aspects of demotion can be somewhat shady. From an ex-staff member, this isn't good news for people who have been behaving.
 

LetsTimeOut

Co-Owner
Financial Adviser
I would personally set it to 16+, as at this age you become less and less dependent from your parents and you start entering the active life (or working life, I don't know if "active life" exists in english) which usually signs the end of the "childhood"/adolescence and at that time people start becoming more mature, so yeah, that is my reasoning for the age requirement, of course it's based on my own experiences with other people and myself.
16+ is way too high. You have to work it in with our general age group which has to be at-least within (12-14). We would get an application maybe once a week.


I still don't believe demotion reasons should be public. I've told a few people about my demotion from my side of the story and I see how some people can twist that into a bad guy situation but that isn't enough reason to expose things they don't want to be exposed. You guys have the console and the chat logs from most things. If it really became an issue shouldn't you be able to easily put yourself in the right if you had something that required answers going around?

Honestly, there is still going to be people who say things in global about ex-staff members because some aspects of demotion can be somewhat shady. From an ex-staff member, this isn't good news for people who have been behaving.
Like I've said, it doesn't pertain to every ex-staff member. But it is enough of an issue where our hands were forced into releasing demotion reasons.
 

sunnybees

Chat Moderator
Upper-rank staff such as Beth, Dawn and Monis have already said many times that the age of the player shouldn't matter. As long as they're mature enough to hold the position there shouldn't be a problem. Our youngest staff member is our oldest ChatMod and she's one of the most mature person I've met, and the sweetest. The staff team wouldn't be the same without her and I think we can all agree on that.
 

ly4

Active Member
Upper-rank staff such as Beth, Dawn and Monis have already said many times that the age of the player shouldn't matter. As long as they're mature enough to hold the position there shouldn't be a problem. Our youngest staff member is our oldest ChatMod and she's one of the most mature person I've met, and the sweetest. The staff team wouldn't be the same without her and I think we can all agree on that.
I've never said the contrary and I've never said that every young person is immature.

16+ is way too high. You have to work it in with our general age group which has to be at-least within (12-14). We would get an application maybe once a week.
You're right, I haven't thought about that.
 

Paethetic

Active Member
16+ is way too high. You have to work it in with our general age group which has to be at-least within (12-14). We would get an application maybe once a week.




Like I've said, it doesn't pertain to every ex-staff member. But it is enough of an issue where our hands were forced into releasing demotion reasons.
I get being transparent, and it's cool with me. I think it'll honestly be a good thing for you guys, don't get me wrong. But I'm just hoping this is a step for many other things being more transparent as well? I know that most ex-staff members don't talk that badly about the staff team because most enjoyed their time. However, this is not the thing that's made you be twisted into the bad guys IMO. There are many other examples of banned players or things who have been doing a lot worse.
 

uwuxdrawrhaha

New Member
No worries mate, haha.



I'm not sure where you've gotten your sources but I'd think that "most" should be changed to something less than 50%. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen!
I heavily agree with what Dawn has said above. There are many things that staff do not disclose for the reason being.
 

KeekeeGrif

Active Member
I dunno, I mean in regards to age requirement I think it should be something along the lines of

11-12 will have a less likely chance of getting staff unless they show some excellent maturity bla bla, but with 11 as the absolute minimum age.
13+ will have a bigger chance of getting accepted


I think anything under 11, even if they are mature, just shouldn't really be allowed?
I feel like they have better things to do then attempt to manage a minecraft server even if they're only helping chat-wise, like go play outside or help your mum do the dishes or something-
Besides this may be stereotypical and probably not true but I feel they can be persuaded more easily? not exactly very good as a staff where you need to be firm with your decisions unless proved otherwise when in your position.

13+ just seems good lol
 
It’s finally nice to see some transparency from the owners about an important issue, and I commend you on that Dawn.

Speaking on the staff age issue, I have less issue with that and more with the amount of time people have spent within the CF community, because as of late I’ve seen lots of staff who I’ve rarely seen (especially on forums which is where I mostly reside), and was just wondering, how do you tackle the issue of staff familiarity with the server/community with newer players?

Another question I’d like to ask, in regards to being staff on other servers, would that include being part of a specific servers build team, or other low level non moderator roles?
 
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iiMeg

Well-Known Member
I personally think this is a good idea. There are gonna be a few upset people but you cant please everyone and it does clear stuff up in some cases. As for the age restriction, I did believe before that would be a good idea but after seeing the points above, I have changed my mind. Considering the main age for most of the players, as Dawn said is around 12-14/15, I just think itll be very off putting for younger players who have been Proven to do an amazing job
 

Crotal

Member
I'm in favor of the decision to make demotion reasons public. As Dawn was talking about earlier, there have been countless incidents of demoted players spreading false information about the staff team, as well as the owners themselves. Making the reasons public also prevents players from lying about why they were demoted.

As for the age requirement for applying, I don't think there should be one at all. A few staff members, although very young, expressed enough maturity to become a staff member. Setting an age requirement would also be quite useless, as it's not hard to lie about your age.
 
I don't think age requirement should be a thing, a lot of people who have been staff and are younger than 13 have showed more maturity than some 16+ staff members, It should really be on level of maturity from things.

On the topic of demoting reasons being public, if you haven't done anything extremely horrible then you don't really need to worry about your demotion reason being public. It also helps if people lie about their demotion reasons trying to make the other half of the staff team look bad so we can really see what's going on. It also helps so we know who to trust, and who's a bad person.
 
when I first joined the server, around the time I was 11, I wanted staff so badly. I instantly fell in love with the players I met and the community itself. Of course when I eventually got a forums account and applied, I clearly was not mature enough to handle the job. Like dawn said, I don’t think it was my age that just made me immature, it was the fact that I never had to be mature. Lots of people are forced to “grow up” faster than others, maybe it’s because they have a single parent and maybe need to help more, of course there is a multitude of reasons why. Some of the youngest staff member are in my opinion some of the best. For example I do believe Heath was 10 when he became a staff member, and became admin within that year, I thought he was older than me, I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard he was 10! Age shouldn’t matter, if you are an immature 19 year old you won’t get the staff position, if you are a mature 9 year old who has shown they could make a good staff member, they get the position! Simple! Age has nothing to do with your ability to be a staff member imo (unless you’re a 2 yr old ok)
Needless to say, I think you should make the demotion reasons public. I would like to be kept in the loop, however “exposing” people who have been on the staff team and broken a rule, in my opinion might just lead to more toxicity. I see why you want to make the demotion reasons public, for example when Those staff members were banned from all platforms of the server for toxicity, the server didn’t speak about it at all, allowing the people who were banned to twist the truth of sorts. Only show some screenshots to their friends to make Monis seem like the bad guy. And when those friends saw the screenshots they immediately attacked him without knowing the whole story. Unfortunately, I was one of those people.
I still feel awful about that and I sincerely don’t want it to happen again. I believe I have matured since that incident, but when it happened I trashed my own reputation and ruined friendships because of that, all out of pure anger for something that in the end wasn’t even the whole story. If you do make the demotions public, I think you don’t need to go into detail about the reason for the demotion, keep some details private, so that people aren’t like “omg u swore!! You are a bad person” because you never know the whole story! And sometimes some things are best kept quiet imo
Some examples:

Player name - toxicity
Player name - failed to follow a CF rule
Player name - inactivity

I think that might solve the issue a bit, then if that ex staff member wants to go into detail about their demotion, they can. A demotion can really make you feel inadequate. Sometimes it does feel like u did nothing to deserve it, but at the end of the day, they made a mistake, they messed up. You move on and you Learn and demotion reasons should not be held against someone who sincerely has tried their best to help this server.

I probably worded that so badly but thanks for coming to my ted talk
 
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